So after finishing the Iliad, I started to read the Odyssey, about 20% of the way through.
It is interesting in a way. Because according to the manosphere some of Penelope’s suitors would be considered “alpha”. They go and eat in her estate, getting all the free cattle and wine and music according to their tastes. Then they constantly “AMOG” Telemachus and turn public opinion against him. Even Penelope at one point calls Telemachus “soft” and untrained in the ways of the world and gatherings of men. His own mother called him “beta” by manosphere standards!
But we see, spurred on by that world’s divine providence, Telemachus stands up for his values. He stands up to ALL of the suitors, and with Minverva hatches a plan to find out information about his father Odysseus. Odysseus is a man Telemachus is related to, but he has NEVER seen, but only heard stories about his goodness/righteousness. Isn’t that interesting? (And indeed this is even a core element of Christianity, blessed are those who believe without seeing! We know of Jesus Christ and God, his goodness and righteousness, yet we never see him. Yet, like Telemachus, we seek our heavenly Father).
So what happens when Telemachus stands up to all of these suitors? They laugh. They mock him. They belittle him. He was straight up AMOG’ed! But that doesn’t stop him. Because what is separating him from men, from alphas, from sigmas, from betas, from womanizers, from PUA’s, from pushovers, is that he realizes the state of society (his father’s and his own estate) is horrible and he seeks to rectify. He sets sail to Menelaus to find out what he can. He has hope the situation will change, and he no longer bends himself to the will of Penelope’s suitors or his mother’s and maid’s views that he should stay home, where it is safe, away from conflict (and away from the truth). So even though Telemachus is a baby, a “beta”, we see he has the spirit of a Man in him.
Contrast that with Agamemnon, a man who does not know right or wrong, honor, respect. He took away Achille’s spoils of war, Achille’s woman! Agamemnon had no respect for Achilles or the sanctity of the bonding between the two. Then is it fitting, that when he returned back home, after an almost decade long war, it is his wife and her new PUA boyfriend who kill Agamemnon!
Agamemnon was certainly “alpha”! He was king! He won many of the physical contests among all the heroes of the Achaens! He was blessed by the gods! He AMOG’ed Achilles, who his part deity! He had status, looks, money, fame, frame. He fit all 3 personality traits of the Dark Triad to a very high or mdoerate degree. Yet his wife did not respect this man. Why?
Yet Odysseus, the way the Odyssey describes him is that he was respected, and it describes specifically why. It is because Odysseus stood up for what he believed in always. Even in front of higher people, even in front of lower people. He showed justice to those above and those below him. He showed love, compassion, wisdom and mercy to both his servants and his kings. He did not lie to any man. The simplest way to describe him is that he was a man of honor. And his wife? Even though Odysseus’s wife has been away from him far longer than Agamemnon’s wife had been from her husband, and even though Penelope had many more suitors than the one man who took Agamemnon’s wife, she never cheated on Odysseus! Because she knew Odysseus was a man who would never stand for her to do that type of thing (and indeed in the end of the Odyssey we know what happened to the PUA’s, alphas, and betas that were in his house) and that Odysseus took what was his, not out of narcissism, or Dark Triad or AMOG or alpha this beta that, but simply because he was the type of man who delivered true justice and was not afraid of man woman or society.
So from a Christian perspective, are we looking to be King Agamemnon, an alpha who tries to game his wife but is ultimately killed by her (though in today’s age the death may be spiritual or psychological rather than physical) or do we find a woman like Penelope, a true Christian woman that does not need to be gamed as you said a couple posts back. But, like the suitors fighting for the hand of Penelope, many are unworthy. You have to go something even beyond the alpha which King Agamemnon had in almost every degree. You have to be a wise man, a man of honor, a man of integrity, a man of God. (Even Odysseus sacrificed the most to zeus out of any man). Instead of being just another suitor, encamped in Penelope’s estate (does the description of the estate not remind you of a modern day bar?) You take what is yours, according to your ability, you enshrine your values, your morals, the wisdom, the justice of God in an absolute sense, not in a compromising moral sense. You chase out the alpha and beta soup people who pervert your house, who would try to corrupt and steal your Penelope. That is how you reclaim society, how you reclaim your woman(women).
If a Christian is teaching to be like King Agamemnon, that path eventually leads to death. Again, maybe not physical like in the Iliad, but perhaps spiritual, psychological, mental, financial death. All the suitors were trying to become chiefs of men themselves, trying to become the next “alpha”. They ended up dead for a reason.
Christ’s discples always got caught up in who is “the alpha disciple” and they “AMOG’d” each other often and argued often. But Christ continually tells his disciples to not get caught up in who is “the alpha disciple” for he came to bring them something greater. He gave them a hope to redeem themselves, their society, their men and women, their very souls.
This is why the great books for men are not talked in society or even in game blogs themselves. If the great books for men were read by Christians (for the first and last book on the list of your great books for men is the Bible) they would understand they have the power and they wouldn’t need to resort to PUA, headship game, feminism, endless philosophies/idealogies/systems, evils of society, corrupt peoples, etc. If the great books for men were read, the eyes of men would be opened. I have currently read around 4 in your list. And it is amazing the wisdom you find in these books, almost all of which you can get for free legally by a simple google search. I’m going to try to make it to half or 25% by the year’s end.
Amazing! Go the head of the class!
Responses to John’s excellent insights include:
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4.8.14 / 11am
or do we find a woman like Penelope, a true Christian woman that does not need to be gamed as you said a couple posts back
I mentioned Gibson’s portrayal of William Wallace a few posts back:
Mel Gibson’s William Wallace is perhaps the truest Real Alpha (as distinct from Dalrock’s version of alpha i.e. a Whiney Gamey Beta). Wallace never manipulated either Muireann or the princess. Remember how and why the princess nearly fainted on the turret stairs? It certainly wasn’t because Wallace “gamed “her.
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4.8.14 / 1pm
Excellent analysis John! Thanks for that!
Try Lombardo’s translations of the Iliad and Odyssey which have excellent introductions to the Iliad and Odyssey.
First and foremost, Homer shows how Honor and the Soul win in the long run, for both men and women.
It is hilarious how many Dalrockian Churchians lash out at the Great Books for men as being pagans, and then transform their very own Jesus Christ into a pagan deity sanctifying their game and buttextxtzlzlzlzo. Remember Odysseus did not game the Sirens, but rather he enjoyed their beauty while tied to the mast, and sailed on by. The Dalrockian chruchian would game the sirens, try to buttehxt them by wearing furry hats, join the Lotus Eaters, and allow Circe to transform them into pigs, before dining on the cattle of the Sun God, and as their life, liberty, and freedom was lost, they would say, “Yes, Jesus Christ has saved us by our faith alone.” lzozozlloz “Thanks god we’re not stooopid pagans!” They would proclaim as Dalrock presented some more charty goodness detailing the decline of civilization, before telling men that they needed not to read the GReat Books for Men and, like Telemachus, man up and reclaim their schools, univieristiesm, and homes from the false suitors gaming and butthetxing their future wives, but to forever serve a woman’s butt and gina tinzgzlzlzlzoozoz via game, for Dalrock proclaims dat dat is what Jesus meants when he said, “Love thy neighborozlzozoz”. zlozlzlzo
